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Stall is still Viable! - An OU RMT

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Majestic
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« on: August 07, 2013, 06:33:45 pm »

Introduction

Hey guys, I've noticed that we haven't had any RMT's yet so I thought I'd start us off!

Now, looking at this team you will see that it is very defensive and is mainly a sort of ShuffleStall team. Some of you have faced it yourselves and will know that it is very annoying to take out. The basic game plan is to set up my hazards, and try to force switches and Roar as much as possible to build up residual damage to where my opponents down whilst taking as little damage as possible (my Pokémon will either heal themselves or get healed by Blissey). I also carry a lot of status moves such as Toxic or Will-O-Wisp just to build up to that damage. This team so far has been very successful for me and has caused many ragequits due to the nature of the team, and most battles will take a long time to complete due to me doing very little damage from my attacks. I've also found that this team works very well against stall teams and probably less so against offensive teams (although this depends on which Pokémon they carry). This team also requires  bit of prediction to use but will generally carry something to wall most Pokémon in the tier, so if you play properly with it then it will be very rewarding for you. I'm not so much retiring this team but I would like to share it to get improvements, spot weaknesses that I may have missed and to generally have fun using it yourselves.


Now here are some important things to note:

- The team has 8 immunities in total: Ground, Ghost, Poison, Fire, Fighting, Normal, Water, Electric.
- I have 0 Attack IVs on some Pokémon, this limits damage from Confusion and Foul Play and doesn't generally matter if I don't use this stat anyway.
- Most, if not all, of the team is very weak to Taunt so this is a problem.
- I do not carry my own weather, although the team still functions under any weather (aside from the obvious weaker Lava Plume in the rain, weaker Scald in the sun etc.)
- Status isn't too much of a problem as Blissey carries Heal Bell, and has Natural Cure itself. 3 of my team are immune to Poison, Heatran is immune to Burns and Toxic Spikes only affect two Pokémon.
- I lack a Rapid Spinner, but I will talk more about this later.


Teambuilding


I started off with a classic FWG core with Ferrothorn, Heatran and Jellicent due to having great synergy with each other and amazing natural bulk. They also have great utility moves such as Leech Seed, Stealth Rocks and Will-O-Wisp to help support the team's goal of stalling the enemy through residual damage.


I noticed that I didn't have any immunity to the ever common Earthquake, or an immunity to Electric moves so I added in Gliscor. I chose this over Landorus-T due to it's amazing and notorious reputation for stalling and access to toxic. Even though it has a lack of Intimidate it gets an amazing (if not better) ability in Poison Heal, which grants it an immunity to status and heals 1/8 of it's HP per turn with a Toxic Orb.


Every team needs a dragon, right? I considered options such as ShuffleNite but decided that this was somewhat bad synergy with Gliscor and was too slow in general despite boasting Multiscale. That Stealth Rock weakness also hurts with a lack of spinners. I decided to go with Latias  as it's a very fast, very reliable dragon with a ton of bulk when used correctly.


This last slot was a really tough decision since I lacked quite a few things. I needed a spinner, but also Wish support, and went with Blissey in the end since hazards aren't too much of a problem (though I will admit they are very annoying). Due to Blissey's ginormous HP stat it can almost fully heal the majority of the team with a single Wish. Definitely very useful when my team is at low HP.


The Team

Just before you read this, they aren't listed in any order since I tend to lead with different Pokémon depending on the team preview (this is just how they are on my Showdown team). Ferrothorn is the preferred lead though.



Latias @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Dragon Pulse
- Substitute

Pretty plain to see here, Latias can take advantage of Pokémon such as Tentacruel (that lack toxic) and generally most things that it resists, to set up a Sub to prevent status and make it even more difficult to KO. Once it gets a few Calm Minds up it is practically untouchable on the Special Side, taking STAB Hydro Pumps in the Rain and taking less than 25%. Dragon Pulse does a ton of damage to anything that isn't steel when it has some boosts and can clean very nicely late game once threats such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Bronzong are removed. The EVs are pretty straightforward - giving it max speed to outspeed any unboosted dragons and to tie with opposing Latias/os, whilst also keeping ahead with Terrakion and Keldeo if they lack a Choice Scarf. It has great synergy, easily sponging fighting attacks aimed at Ferro/Heatran (if Jelly is dead), grass and electric attacks aimed at Jelly, water attacks aimed at Gliscor and so on. It obviously shares a weakness to dark and ghost with Jelly, and an ice weakness with Gliscor, but that's what team support is for. Furthermore it is immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes which is always a great asset. Seriously, once it can set up it is an absolute monster to take out.



Blissey @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss

Blissey is a fantastic Cleric with access to moves such as Wish, Heal Bell, Aromatherapy, Softboiled and a great ability in Natural Cure. It gets even better than that with it's unrivalled HP stat and a great Special Defense stat. A calm nature maximises this stat, bringing it up to 405, whilst taking off the attack stat which doesn't matter. Since it's Physical Defense is awful, I gave it maximum investment as this actually gives it surprising bulk when combined with it's gargantuan HP. This HP makes it possibly the best user of Wish in the game as with the new mechanics it can pass on wishes of 326HP - meaning it can nearly fully heal the whole team. Protect gives it a turn to heal should it's on HP be lacking. Heal Bell cures the entire team (and itself) of status which is great for when Pokémon such as Latias or Ferrothorn get burned, paralysed or poisoned. Blissey needed an attack so it isn't complete taunt bait, and since it has pitifull attacking stats I gave it Seismic Toss to deal a consistant 100 damage per turn to anything which isn't a ghost (ironically Blissey is immune to ghost moves but equally I can do no damage to them.) But yeah, 99% of the time Blissey won't be attacking so this isn't much of an issue.



Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Power Whip

Ferrothorn is one of the most important members of this team, not only being a part of the FWG core, but also acting as a dragon resist and a vital hazard setter. With Spikes up I can force the opponent to switch out and gain lots of residual damage on the opponent's team. Leech Seed allows Ferrothorn to gain recovery outside of Leftovers which is important in keeping it alive whilst gaining extra damage against the opposing Pokémon. Protect allows me to gain extra damage through Leech Seed and recover a bit more HP. Power Whip simultaneously prevents it from being complete Taunt bait and acts as a surprising powerful STAB and lets it OHKO or 2HKO the likes of Politoed and Jellicent who may attempt to Encore or Taunt it, respectively. The EVs are just standard and give it great all-round bulk enabling it to tank some of the most powerful attacks in the game. I have also tried out a Rocky Helmet in conjunction with Iron Barbs to deal MASSIVE amounts of damage to physical attackers, which 3HKOs any Pokémon that makes contact taking into account Stealth Rocks.  However I did find that the lack of recovery is missed and keeping Ferro alive is more important than dealing extra damage, for this team anyway.



Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Protect
- Roar

Heatran is really a fantastic Pokémon. For starters it has great offensive and defensive stats as well as a great supporting or damaging movepool. Naturally I chose the specially defensive set to increase it's longevity in battle and to make it an amazing Draco Meteor sponger. The EVs are pretty self explanatory, giving what I just said. Stealth Rock is one of the best moves in the game - breaking Focus Sash's, Sturdy, Multiscale and causing a ton of damage on threatening Pokémon like Kyurem-B and anything weak to it in general. It also helps to add up the all important residual damage when the opponent is forced to switch. Lava Plume is not only a reliable and decent powered STAB move, but also has a handy 30% burn chance which lets it tank Physical attacks better. Protect lets Heatran gain more Leftovers recovery whilst scouting for dangerous moves like Focus Blast or Earth Power. I originally had Toxic as it's last move, but replaced it with Roar after facing a very annoying Tormentran (not looking at anyone Vansalon Tongue ). Roar is great for this team as it helps to shuffle the opponent's team, stacking up hazard damage and removing set up sweepers or substitute users. Heatran is immune to Fire type attacks and even gets a boost to it's own from Flash Fire, and is also the only Pokémon (I believe) to be immune to both burns and poison.



Jellicent @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 52 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt

Jellicent is the final Pokémon in the FWG core but is also one of the most important members of the team. Scald is another great STAB move and ,similarly to Heatran's Lava Plume, has a good 30% chance to burn. Will-O-Wisp is in case I need to burn an opponent and can't risk Scalding. Recover increases Jellicent's lifespan and lets it stall the opponent some more. Taunt is a great move to stop opposing Pokémon that take little damage from Scald from setting up and acts as a good stallbreaker against other stall teams. I customised the EVs slightly, giving it as much HP and physical bulk as possible which, when combined with a burn from either Scald or Will-O-Wisp, makes it an effective physical wall. Jellicent already gets good natural special bulk so I decided to invest the rest of the EVs into speed (the amount given lets me outspeed opposing Jellicent by 1 point so I can get off a Taunt first. Being a ghost type Jellicent can spinblock against most Pokémon besides Starmie and give it a handy immunity to Fighting and Normal type attacks. A great ability in Water Absorb lets it take any Surfs or Hydro Pumps aimed at Heatran or Gliscor and heal some extra HP on the side which is always welcome.



Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Substitute
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Ah, Gliscor. Along with Whimsicott and Jirachi this could possibly be the most annoying Pokémon in the entire game. Gliscor gets a fantastic ability which gives it double leftovers recovery (in total 1/8) HP recovery each turn whilst simultaneously making it immune to status. Gliscor is effectively immortal to any Pokémon that is slower than it through the use of Substitute and Protect as it completely gains the HP lost from Substitute every two turns. This, along with its fantastic physical bulk, make it a great PP staller and can cause ragequits just by itself. Toxic makes this stalling even better as the opponent is dying whilst I recover health, as well as letting me poison bulkier Pokémon that take little or no damage from Earthquake. Earthquake itself is a solid STAB move that stops it from being Taunt bait (yeah I've said this a lot) and threatens Pokémon like Heatran that lack HP Ice. The 72 Speed EVs enable Gliscor to outspeed Rotom-W that aren't Choice Scarfed so Gliscor can easily stall out Hydro Pump's 8PP. There isn't really much to say about Gliscor other than it's a key defensive pivot with an immunities to the omnipresent Ground and Electric moves, and a much needed fighting resistance. This set does leave Gliscor unable to touch Skarmory, but other members of the team (namely Heatran) can easily deal with this problem.


Alternative Pokémon:
Pokémon that appear here are possible replacements for some of the Pokémon on the current team. I would love to hear your thoughts and recommendations on these!


Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 236Def/20Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
IVs: 0Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Protect

As you may have noticed I have a lack of a Rapid Spinner in this team, and Tentacruel fits the bill nicely. Furthermore it can set up it's own Toxic Spikes too, meaning that I could potentially have all three types of hazards on the field at once. Scald is a good STAB move that deals consistent damage as well as having a handy burn chance against Pokémon that rely on physical attacks to do damage. Protect enables Tentacruel to get a bit of HP back with Black Sludge and even more if rain is on the field. However this does make me reliant on the opponent to get this extra health back. The obvious Pokémon that Tentacruel would replace is Jellicent, having similar typing, stats and moves. However they both have a few notable pros and cons, and so far I haven't decided which is best so I would love some feedback on this.

Tentacruel Pros:
- Access to Rapid Spin, meaning hazards won't plague my team.
- Access to Toxic Spikes which improves the team's shuffling potential.
- Higher speed and special defense.
- Takes neutral damage from grass attacks.

Tentacruel cons:
- Has no reliable recovery moves like Recover, although if the opponent sets up rain then this is less of an issue.
- Has to rely on Scald to get burns whereas Jellicent is more reliable with Will-O-Wisp.
- Whilst having access to Rapid Spin, it can't block it like Jellicent can.
- Resists Fighting and Water type moves, but is not immune to them like Jellicent is.


Battles
Here's just a couple of battles to give you an idea of the stalling capabilities of this team.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-41299755 (Warning: Extremely long battle, very good though!)
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-43123686 (Not really much of a stall match, but their defensive potential is shown nicely in this)

GG and thanks to both Vansalon and Scoobydoohan for helping me test out this team Smiley


Well that's about it guys, sorry it was so long but kudos to you if you've took the time to read it. Please feel free to rate, suggest improvements, or even use this team if you want to.

See you next time!
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2013, 06:58:58 pm »

You should change Heatran's set to TormentTran.

I don't really have anything to say to improve the team, but I will say I recommend Jellicent over Tentacruel since you're not running rain. A fighting immunity can be invaluable, and a water immunity messes with opposing rain teams, particularly scarfkeldeo, who can't really touch jellicent. Overall, with good recovery on a lot of your team and Wish, I don't think rapid spin support is needed so much. The one thing is Jellicent risks being seriously worn down by toxic spikes without rapid spin or a poison type to remove them. Blissey has heal bell and natural cure, so it's not a problem for it.

I'd recommend running a dual screens set on Latias, but you really don't have much offensive presence anywhere if you don't run a SubCM on it, and even on stall teams offensive presence is crucial sometimes.
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2013, 07:08:00 pm »

You should change Heatran's set to TormentTran.

I don't really have anything to say to improve the team, but I will say I recommend Jellicent over Tentacruel since you're not running rain. A fighting immunity can be invaluable, and a water immunity messes with opposing rain teams, particularly scarfkeldeo, who can't really touch jellicent. Overall, with good recovery on a lot of your team and Wish, I don't think rapid spin support is needed so much. The one thing is Jellicent risks being seriously worn down by toxic spikes without rapid spin or a poison type to remove them. Blissey has heal bell and natural cure, so it's not a problem for it.

I'd recommend running a dual screens set on Latias, but you really don't have much offensive presence anywhere if you don't run a SubCM on it, and even on stall teams offensive presence is crucial sometimes.
I've found that Jelly does get worn down by Toxic pretty quickly so yeah. I suppose I could try out Tentacruel though and see which one comes in most useful, but you're right about the fighting and water immunity being useful (not so much the normal immunity but its more immunities so yeah xD).

I would run screens on Latias but without it then I have no offensive presence in the slightest and the team are all already very bulky. The SubCM set has won me quite a few battles once their steels have gone.

Thanks for the feedback bro
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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2013, 07:55:54 am »

Though it would initially seem that Tentacruel could be a viable option in order to absorb Toxic Spikes and spin away hazards as well as absorb incoming Toxics, looking deeper it is not as good as it would seem. Removing Jellicent from the roster removes your Fighting immunity and spin blocking, something very important to this team as it stacks residual damage off of hazards. Also, as you do not run Drizzle or Rain Dance yourself, relying on other people setting up rain to give you Rain Dish healing is risky. Also, you cannot switch in Tentacruel to take Water attacks aimed at Heatran, unlike your Jellicent. Finally, adding Tentacruel increases your Ground weakness on this team. In conclusion, I would recommend Jellicent as the spin blocking is required, the Toxic Spikes that Tentacruel could lay down actually only weaken you, as you cannot then choose to inflict something with a burn if required, and since nearly everything on this team has a form of recovery and Wish Cleric Blissey if they don't, spinning away hazards is not necessary.
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2013, 09:22:04 am »

Though it would initially seem that Tentacruel could be a viable option in order to absorb Toxic Spikes and spin away hazards as well as absorb incoming Toxics, looking deeper it is not as good as it would seem. Removing Jellicent from the roster removes your Fighting immunity and spin blocking, something very important to this team as it stacks residual damage off of hazards. Also, as you do not run Drizzle or Rain Dance yourself, relying on other people setting up rain to give you Rain Dish healing is risky. Also, you cannot switch in Tentacruel to take Water attacks aimed at Heatran, unlike your Jellicent. Finally, adding Tentacruel increases your Ground weakness on this team. In conclusion, I would recommend Jellicent as the spin blocking is required, the Toxic Spikes that Tentacruel could lay down actually only weaken you, as you cannot then choose to inflict something with a burn if required, and since nearly everything on this team has a form of recovery and Wish Cleric Blissey if they don't, spinning away hazards is not necessary.
I agree with what you've said but Jellicent really gets worn down by opposing Toxic Spikes as (even if I use Heal Bell with Blissey) it will just keep getting poisoned every time it switches in and severely limits the number of turns it can remain the field.

And yeah your Blissey is downright amazing for any team really, so thanks for letting me use it Smiley
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